Horse Paste for Rosacea

[Guide]

On 6/21/2019 at 9:27 PM, Rory said:

Yes I'm ingesting it. I took a 250 lb dose. No, i dont weigh 250 lb. I just like the idea if a large dose. Each syringe has enough for a 1250 lb horse, so thats 5 doses per syringe. 

Rory, thanks for clearing this up that you are taking the horse paste orally. We do have a thread dedicated to taking ivermectin orally. While many may think that taking oral ivermectin isn't a good idea, the fact is that oral ivermectin has been given to millions of people worldwide and there are long term studies on oral ivermectin in children. However, the RRDi recommends you check with your physician when embarking on this form of treatment as a precaution. It would be better you post in the oral ivermectin thread since this thread is about using horse paste topically. Thanks. 

[Guide]

On 6/15/2019 at 11:34 AM, Rory said:

Haven't heard of this lutein stuff Brady. Havent really been around much lately. So youre still using zz, using some topical peroxide, low carb diet and lutein. Hell of a life, eh. 

Topical ivermectin may be the best option but some of us cant tolerate it. Im not sure any derm would be able to answer that question. Probably better to ask a vet.

Actually I ran this by my dermatologist who was well aware that Rosaceans were using horse paste topically since he read about it in a journal. There are some dermatologists who are up to date with what is going on and then there are others who are in the dark. He told me that when prescribing Soolantra to his rosacea patients that about one in four patients were successful using it. He gave me a Rx for Soolantra and I tried it and I think now it was the inactive ingredients in Soolantra that irritated my skin. Galderma (or another pharmaceutical company) will probably eventually make an ivermectin gel with a very simple inactive ingredient list to compete with the horse paste that everyone is raving about. Galderma knows what is going on with rosaceans and obviously saw a slight dip in Soolantra sales due to thousands using horse paste. They know that a significant number of rosacea patients are not able to tolerate the inactive ingredients in Soolantra. 

[Rory]

Well, I think oral ivermectin should be more common as a rosacea treatment. Rosacea skin has a damaged barrier and topicals can be extremely difficult for many to tolerate. Also, topical treatments can be very slow to take effect as seen in a Galderma study of Soolantra where 30% of trial participants took up to a year to achieve clear/almost clear results. Then there is demodex brevis. A much smaller cousin of demodex folliculorum, which lives deeper in the pores. Little is known about brevis and, unlike folliculorum, it doesn't appear to exit pores at night to mate. If this is indeed the case then how do we kill it with a topical which may not penetrate the skin deep enough to reach it. 

I think the horse paste is more of a hit in the States than in Europe. Its down to the crazy prescrition medication prices Americans pay, whereas in Europe Soolatra is many times cheaper. Ivermectin, as far as i know, is not water soluble. So any topical gel version of Soolantra will need one of those irritataing oil soluble excipients to disolve it. The horse paste looks like a gel but i have seen comments from people saying that it feels and looks like vaseline after applying it. 

Anyway, I'll give it a couple of months and I'll post my results on the page you mentioned.

[Guide]

4 hours ago, Rory said:

Anyway, I'll give it a couple of months and I'll post my results on the page you mentioned.

Thanks Rory. Looking forward to your results. Did you see this paper about demodex brevis: 

Demodex Brevis Higher Count Than Demodex Folliculorum in Cylindrical Dandruff Patients

[Rory]

And thats exactly the problem with Brevis. We have no way to check the levels of this parasite in rosacea. This study was able to check them by extracting eyelashes and found large numbers of brevis at the root. But what type of test is used to count them in the skin.  Surface tests will only count folliculorum levels and Soolantra won't have much of a problem killing them. But i have my doubts that it is able to kill brevis. 

[andy doyle]

I'd really like to hear about the oral ivermectin Rory, I am living in Ireland and I've also wondered about the demodex brevis after Soolantra (9 months) failed to clear my skin. Oral Ivermectin is one of the few things I still haven't tried. I've pulled eyelashes out of my eyebrows and some of them looked clear enough, other ones has a prominent hair follicle and a a weird gooey substance which I thought might be an indicator of demodex brevis, I have some redness over my eyebrows and in the oily T-zone, outside of the oily T-zone my skin is fairly clear.

[Guide]

On 8/29/2019 at 3:50 PM, andy doyle said:

I'd really like to hear about the oral ivermectin Rory, I am living in Ireland and I've also wondered about the demodex brevis after Soolantra (9 months) failed to clear my skin. Oral Ivermectin is one of the few things I still haven't tried. I've pulled eyelashes out of my eyebrows and some of them looked clear enough, other ones has a prominent hair follicle and a a weird gooey substance which I thought might be an indicator of demodex brevis, I have some redness over my eyebrows and in the oily T-zone, outside of the oily T-zone my skin is fairly clear.

Andy,
You can learn about oral ivermectin with this post. You should be able to view demodex with the naked eye but dermoscopy or a cheap microscope makes viewing easier. This post explains about viewing demodex. 

A Russian paper on demodex had this point concerning demodex brevis: 

Demodex brevis not as significant as Demodex Folliculorum

"In patients with severe manifestations of the condition (pustulous and infiltrative- productive forms of rosacea), the species of the mites Demodex folliculorum (P<0.01) is more often detected. Demodex brevis is found in mild forms of the condition and in healthy people, without showing signs of parasitism."

"When Demodex brevis is found, given its weak possibility of parasitism, treatment with antiparasitic drugs is not indicated."

More information

[Rory]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:50 AM, andy doyle said:

I'd really like to hear about the oral ivermectin Rory, I am living in Ireland and I've also wondered about the demodex brevis after Soolantra (9 months) failed to clear my skin. Oral Ivermectin is one of the few things I still haven't tried. I've pulled eyelashes out of my eyebrows and some of them looked clear enough, other ones has a prominent hair follicle and a a weird gooey substance which I thought might be an indicator of demodex brevis, I have some redness over my eyebrows and in the oily T-zone, outside of the oily T-zone my skin is fairly clear.

Over the space of 2 months I took a dose of the horse paste every 5 or 6 days. In that timeframe I used 2 syringes, which is enough for two 600kg horses. I didn't see any difference. 

[andy doyle]

Ok , thanks for following up on the post Rory. That's disappointing but what can you do.

 

Thanks for the feedback Admin also.

[Rory]

On 8/31/2019 at 5:15 PM, andy doyle said:

Ok , thanks for following up on the post Rory. That's disappointing but what can you do.

 

Thanks for the feedback Admin also.

Just to clarify my case Andy, I only wanted to know for sure if demodex played some role for me. I wasn't able to do this with Soolantra because my face reacted badly to it. In fact my face pretty much reacts to any topical. I can get about a 90% clearance of my face with 5% benzoyl peroxide but I only leave it on for about half an hour. Any longer will cause irritation. My little experiment with the horse paste was just to see if I could get 100% clearance. 

[andy doyle]

What kind of rosacea/redness does the benzoyl peroxide 5%  for 30 mins give you 90% clearance of Rory?  is it papules/pustules ? redness on nose/cheeks ? background redness on whole face ? redness around mouth ? 

[Rory]

21 hours ago, andy doyle said:

What kind of rosacea/redness does the benzoyl peroxide 5%  for 30 mins give you 90% clearance of Rory?  is it papules/pustules ? redness on nose/cheeks ? background redness on whole face ? redness around mouth ? 

The benzoyl peroxide only clears papules/pustules for me. It doesn't have any effect on reducing redness in my case but it can increase redness if I leave in on too long. Short contact therapy can be a good alternative for those with sensitive skin but if you're only dealing with subtype 1 rosacea (red face) then I don't think it will help.

[Erin]

I have used horse ‘paste’ (more like a gel) multiple times when my acneic rosacea has flared, along with bouts of overly greasy skin and flakiness. I can’t remember where i found the suggested use guidelines online (may be on this forum), but only had used it topically, and mixed with a natural tea tree oil lotion because the apple scented gel is greasy/sticky.

Last week, after getting fed up with pustules all over my chin and nose again (at 51 years old... grr...), i reordered two tubes of the DuraMectin from Amazon, and used one tube over the course of the last week. It helped—it always does. My skin becomes less oily; with less ‘build up,’ or skin thickening, and far far fewer pustules. The flakiness goes away completely and leaves me feeling and looking like I am an adult with actual, normal-looking skin. But, this time, they weren’t gone, despite using it directly without mixing it with a lotion. I simply rubbed it in thoroughly, and just dealt with any residual sticky sensations. I think the rosacea simply is worsening with age, unfortunately.

So, I referenced the ingested dosing suggestions found for both scabies infestations as well as for pustular rosacea, and refamiliarized myself with the clear  studies on oral ingestion of Ivermectin in humans,  and took a 125lb dose orally. Probably should’ve just gone with the 250, though. I will on the next dose, a couple of days from now. 

As happens when applying topically, without mixing, i got a flushing sensation after ingesting it. Nothing really noticeable except I’m sensitive to it based on years of knowing flushing is a sign my face is about to explode in severe acne. But, so far, so good. DuraMectin is pretty much a miracle solution that’s been hiding right in front of my face for years, unbeknownst to me. 

The trouble with Soolantra is many, for me: Cost, for sure, but also: additives; multiple forms chosen at the discretion of your doctor, as well as often needing to run through multiple other treatments before a doctor will even prescribe it for rosacea. Very frustrating and leads many to believe the medical profession either doesn’t understand the suffering we endure, or they simply have no real impetus to cure it. 

As a result, I’ve remained hesitant to seriously listen to the articles citing dermatologists’ warnings about using Ivermectin horse paste. Couple that with the thousands of anecdotal reviews and reports of real people ingesting AND using horse paste topically to great success for rosacea, scabies, live and other mites, and the millions world wide orally ingesting Ivermectin to no ill effect, and it was a no brainer for me. Still is. As noted several times here, make sure whichever brand you go with has no other active ingredient. All active ingredients must be on the label. It’s just inactive ingredients that don’t. But the only real concern, if there are no allergies to PG or other benign ingredients that may be used, is that there isn’t another active drug that kills other worms, parasites, bots, OTHER than Ivermectin. I have, to date, only seen one horse paste on amazon that contains more than Ivermectin as the only active ingredient. 

My take is: It’s hard enough to find work or to interface with the public as an adult with terrible acne. I just don’t have time or patience to wait for doctors and pharmaceutical companies to do the right thing for us, who suffer. So, here is my thumbs-up/a-okay for DuraMectin Apple flavored horse paste—applied topically AND/OR ingested orally, by your body weight, to clear up rosaceaic acne. 

Cheers,

Erin

[Guide]

On 9/22/2019 at 3:56 PM, Erin said:

I have used horse ‘paste’ (more like a gel) multiple times when my acneic rosacea has flared, along with bouts of overly greasy skin and flakiness.....So, here is my thumbs-up/a-okay for DuraMectin Apple flavored horse paste—applied topically AND/OR ingested orally, by your body weight, to clear up rosaceaic acne. Cheers, Erin

Thanks Erin for your post. Many, many others have reported great success with horse paste (gel). Without a doubt, Galderma and other pharmaceutical companies will note this success and start producing 1.87% ivermectin in a gel form without as many inactive ingredients to compete with the success you and others are having, especially a cheap version that could get FDA approved for human treatment. As for taking ivermectin orally, we have a thread on using ORAL IVERMECTIN FOR ROSACEA which is separate from the one you are posting in here which is about topical horse paste treatment. Really appreciate your post very much. 

[Erin]

On 9/23/2019 at 9:04 PM, Admin said:

Thanks Erin for your post. Many, many others have reported great success with horse paste (gel). Without a doubt, Galderma and other pharmaceutical companies will note this success and start producing 1.87% ivermectin in a gel form without as many inactive ingredients to compete with the success you and others are having, especially a cheap version that could get FDA approved for human treatment. As for taking ivermectin orally, we have a thread on using ORAL IVERMECTIN FOR ROSACEA which is separate from the one you are posting in here which is about topical horse paste treatment. Really appreciate your post very much. 

Thank you for such a welcoming response! And, I appreciate the pointer towards the oral dosing thread. I’m glad to ‘officially’ be here, after years of lurking and learning from everyone.